Banggai Cardinal fin rot (need help ASAP) (1 Viewer)

[M_Salzer]

Hi All, I am new to the hobby and looking for assistance.

I recently started my reef (14 gallon nano) and added my first fish after cycling with fritz and testing using api saltwater kits. My first member was a Banggai cardinal who seemed fine but as I added him to the tank after acclimation I noticed a small bit of wear on the tip of one of his fins. I figured this could have been from another tank mate asserting dominance at the pet store as I had chosen a small occupant for my nano reef. Over the first week he aggressively ate frozen brine and once my clean up crew was added (1 cleaner skunk and 4 red leg hermits to start) he continued to eat until yesterday in which he skipped both feedings. I removed excess food with a net such that ammonia would not build up. This morning I noticed once the banggai came out of the cave there were 3 distinct red spots akin to fin rot (from what I could find on reef central).
Aug 31 ==> 18hrs later Nov 1

Reefing book below if anyone wants to reference.



My theory is that the cardinal brought something into the tank with him a few weeks ago, however due to the addition to the clean up crew and the skunk shrimp taking his cave for a bit his immune system was stressed out and the disease was able to progress, however it seems amazingly rapid for 18 hours or so. I have done approximately a 5 gallon water change this morning and his condition seemed to improve slightly. I appreciate any and all help, I may need to put him in a more experienced reefers tank as I do not want to hurt or kill this fish. Thanks again!! (I'm located near the heights)

 

[webster1234]

I am having trouble deciphering your notes. Was your ammonia .5 ppm on Aug 28th? 4 days ago? What is your ammonia today?

 

[M_Salzer]

It was between 0 and 0.5 the api test kits are not very accurate in that range and I was a bit lazy when testing as it was more of just confirming the water change went well.

 

[webster1234]

Ammonia is a big deal. That looks more like ammonia poisoning to me vs fin rot. Ammonia usually makes their gills red and could also be showing up elsewhere. I would get some ammo lock and dose that while your cycle continues. Your tank is still cycling imo.

 

[M_Salzer]

Give me a moment to go test my current perameters, ammonia was approximately 0ppm when i tested yesterday.

 

[webster1234]

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/aqueon-ammonia-neutralizer

Something like this should be fine.

 

[Humblefish]

Sounds like ammonia poisoning and now the fish has secondary bacterial infections to boot.

First step is to give the fish a 30 min Methylene Blue bath: Methylene Blue – Marine Fish Diseases and Treatment

And as mentioned above, start dosing an ammonia reducer until you can get that under control in your DT. You may need to add a bacteria in a bottle product to boost population levels.

 

[webster1234]

Microbacter7 by Brightwell is a decent bacteria strain to get your nitrifying bacteria population up.

 

[M_Salzer]

Thanks Webster, and Humblefish. I do have a question though as this is progressing in real time.

The fish no longer has red spots....... I am again confounded

attached is the up to date API test.

 

[M_Salzer]

*edit* I understand the fish is swimming the opposite direction in the pictures posted at 3pm vs taken at 11am. This said the spots visible at 11am were from both sides

 

[webster1234]

How long as the tank been running?
What was the process you went through in the beginning? Live rock? dead rock?
Properly cycling a tank takes a month or more. It looks from your notes that you've been at it 2-3 weeks tops.
Did you add bacteria in the beginning?
Have you observed the nitrites spike and then go back to zero?
These are things you watch for to let you know where you are at in the cycle process.
It doesn't look like your NH4 is too bad, and that is good if the red areas have subsided. But it is still .25 ppm acccording to your test kit. My money is still on an ammonia related issue.

 

[webster1234]

Any reading above zero is usually unacceptable. Get some ammonia reducer like I posted and dose that along with more bacteria.

 

[M_Salzer]

August 9th Dry rock in addition to 20lbs of caribsea live sand was added with 12 gallons of water. this was then dosed with Fritz Turbo start 900 and ammonia
This was tested almost daily and the results are shown above. Once ammonia was approximately 0ppm I discussed with the LFS and added 1 banggai cardinal. I can confirm that the tank was properly through the nitrogen cycle at this point and needed to build up the bacteria colony so I waited another 9 days to add my clean up crew. no spikes in any readings were seen and I simply recorded "x is between 0 and 0.5ppm" on a lot of my readings due to the inability for the kit itself to give a completely accurate reading. I was conditioning all tests with RO/DI water to remove any contaminate before testing.

As far as the test kit you are dealing with an inaccurate home test that will register anything above 0 as 0.25 ppm. Sadly I don't possess ICPMS or UPLC/HPLC equipment in my house to give accurate readings. possibly a seneye down the road. [I work as a chemist and can assure my methods have been as accurate as possible with the current kit]

 

[M_Salzer]

apologies, august 12th***

 

[webster1234]

I was a chemist also and understand that hobby test kits are not lab instruments. We all get that. That's why we employ "rules of thumb" along with time tested tried and true methods (ie. fudge factors) in this hobby. All I am trying to say is you can't take a tank starting with dry rock through a complete cycle process in less than 3 weeks. It usually takes 2-3 months.

You may get a zero reading with a test kit but you said it yourself, they aren't super accurate. What you have happening is no big deal and easy to correct. Deviations happen fast in a 12 gallon aquarium. Once you understand that, even the addition of one fish can cause an ammonia spike until the bacteria has a chance to catch up with the new load. It's also possible that you have dead organic material on your dead rock that could be decomposing. Your live sand could experience some die off. All of that can be enough cause a small ammonia spike and stress a weak fish.

My suggestion is to get some ammonia blocker and some more bacteria (or if you have more turbo start) and dose that. Do that along with water changes for the next few weeks until your bacteria population can get going. You'll be fine.

 

[M_Salzer]

Understood, thanks again. I got this message as I started my car to grab methylene and such.

 

[webster1234]

Good luck and keep us posted with your progress.

 

[M_Salzer]

Petco total cost $25. I will update as needed. Question as per the biospira it said to remove all medications. How will this impact the dip I am doing and should I avoid using ammo lock as the bacteria needs to feed initially.

 

[webster1234]

Ammo lock just binds it up chemically and reduces it to a non toxic form of something (not sure what the chemical compound is) but it's till there so I think your bacteria will still have something to feed on if I remember correctly.

Ammonia reducer isn't a medication so no worries there. Some medications such as Methylene blue will kill bacteria so that is what they are talking about. But you will be doing the dip in another container so no issues. Just have two batches of dip water when you do it. The one you dip him in and then one to rinse him off in before you put him back in the tank. Also try and keep all of the containers at the same temp. Temp shock is hard on fish too.

 

[M_Salzer]

Update:

The dip was terrifying; thought I lost the banggai for a bit as he was breathing heavily on the sand floor afterwords.

Could have been temp shock or a number of factors.

After giving time to recover over the last few days and 1/5 dose (1oz) of ammo lock he has now shown interest in feedings.
(I only used a low dose as I wanted the biospira to continue consuming any free ammonia readily)

I will update if anything changes. Thanks again and my Banggai appreciates it as well