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  1. #21
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    If I bought one, I wouldn’t test as much as they recommend. I think I head 4x a day will be that higher price. Let me find the video.
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  2. #22
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    Heard** (sorry can’t edit as a GUEST!)
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  3. #23
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    -Jared-
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerTy View Post
    That's why I'm avoiding it for now. Its just like Adobe switching to a monthly fee to use their software (Photoshop and Lightroom) versus purchases anymore. Why have people just do a one time hardware purchase when you can milk them for reagent every month... Basically put Neptune in your personal payroll. It drives me nuts that companies do this.
    That's called business longevity. Can you buy a att uverse box and not pay monthly subscription? Same concept except you are buying reagent in this case.

    Neptune invested millions so they want to make sure they can survive this harsh reefing market in the future and generate regular revenue stream. Do you think we are using apex fusion for free? I don't think so. Must have Reef items 2018?

    Looking at cost of these frags what's a $1.30 a day cost to keep your corals thriving. You know how much frags cost. Must have Reef items 2018?

    I would prefer a machine that tests everything ALK/CAL/MG.

    __________________________________________________ _______________
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    Maxspect Gyre XF280, 2XMP60s * 2XMP40s * 4 EcoTech Battery Backup


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  5. #25
    Supporting Member FarmerTy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RR-MAN View Post
    That's called business longevity. Can you buy a att uverse box and not pay monthly subscription? Same concept except you are buying reagent in this case.

    Neptune invested millions so they want to make sure they can survive this harsh reefing market in the future and generate regular revenue stream. Do you think we are using apex fusion for free? I don't think so. Must have Reef items 2018?

    Looking at cost of these frags what's a $1.30 a day cost to keep your corals thriving. You know how much frags cost. Must have Reef items 2018?

    I would prefer a machine that tests everything ALK/CAL/MG.
    I used a terrible analogy in the first place, one that doesn't require an additional item for the original product to work versus any tester will require the additional reagent to test along with the original product.

    So ignoring that glaringly terrible comparison I did earlier... How about this...

    Alkatronic = $0.15/day to test alk
    Trident = $1.30/day to test alk/Ca/Mg

    Someone is ripping off the customers with reagent costs. You can clearly see who. Assuming costs are the roughly the same for Ca/Mg reagent as alk, that's almost 3x the costs of reagent being charged by Neptune. Of course this is all hypothetical as the Trident isn't even released yet but I had a high suspicion they would drag reefers over the coals with reagent costs.

    Just for me personally, testing calcium daily is a waste of reagent and a waste of my tank water. With a calcium reactor, it doses calcium and alk at an equal ratio to coral uptake. So my Calcium will track with my alk very closely. If I keep my alk in line, my calcium will be in line. So if I'm testing alk daily anyways... I find testing Ca daily pointless.

    Mg doesn't deplete as fast as alk/Ca... It can usually be tested and dosed quarterly if needed. Again, for me at least, seeing 1380ppm every day isn't needed... Waste of reagent and tank water.

    So for my tank setup and my purposes, Trident is unnecessary. I just need to know my alk and test the other two on a quarterly basis. Others mileage may vary as not everybody runs a calcium reactor and those running 2-part will appreciate the daily calcium result as well.

    I don't know of anybody who will actually benefit much from daily Mg results... Unless they like seeing the same number repeated for months at a time in between water changes.

  6. #26
    BOD MEMBER steveb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RR-MAN View Post
    That's called business longevity. Can you buy a att uverse box and not pay monthly subscription? Same concept except you are buying reagent in this case.

    Neptune invested millions so they want to make sure they can survive this harsh reefing market in the future and generate regular revenue stream. Do you think we are using apex fusion for free? I don't think so. Must have Reef items 2018?

    Looking at cost of these frags what's a $1.30 a day cost to keep your corals thriving. You know how much frags cost. Must have Reef items 2018?

    I would prefer a machine that tests everything ALK/CAL/MG.
    Its a crappy business model for the consumer.

    All I can say is most of us are on a budget. I personally donít have infinitely deep pockets for every tom, dick & harry to put their hand in and pull out another dime every month.

    Those that want to have all 3 tested and are willing to pay the monthly expense will and thats fine.

    Me personally i tend to toss out mag and calcium kits when there expired as I just dont test that often. Its just a matter of whats going to kill my sps quick if I take my eye off it. For me thats alk since i run at 7. If my pump quits working or whatever i lose about 1/2 a dkh/day.

    I think they are all fine products. I just would rather spend my limited $$ on frags or fish or chemicals to actually dose in the tank.


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  8. #27
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    I wish someone would hurry up and develop a nitrate and phosphate titrator. Coralvue has the multi test machine but limited to liquid solution so only api kits for phosphate and nitrate for now. They are supposingly in talks with habib to come up with liquid reagent but who knows when.

    Alkatronic is an amazing product given that it was a one man show development. Support is excellent. Machine is robust. They recommend two week calibration but doesnít need it. Minor things they can update. Allow user to set start test time. Decrease minimum test to once a day instead of twice. Once stabilized you donít need to test but once a day. Make the application connection via internet rather than blue tooth. The reagent is basically acid. Uses a stepper motor to titrate down to ph of 4.23. I got the concentrated solution and have used only about 30% in 5 months, so reagent cost is negligible.

    They have development blurbs like any other. Initial loud pumps especially the waste water pump. Sounds and look like the Japanese Welco pumps. They upgraded those pumps and put a bunch of rubber gasket around the stepper motors. Can still hear the pumps but much quieter.

    Sometimes I wish Jim welsh chose someone else to help develop his product. Jonas developed his product after Jim and has brought his product to market before apex who is still fudging around. One can argue that trident suppose to test more but on the other hand the main values that fluctuates most are alk, nitrate and phosphate.

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  10. #28
    BOD MEMBER steveb's Avatar
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    Must have Reef items 2018?

    Quote Originally Posted by schprock View Post
    I wish someone would hurry up and develop a nitrate and phosphate titrator.
    Yes!

    I keep banging hanna about a nitrate checker every time i get a chance and having something automated would be even better.



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  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerTy View Post
    I used a terrible analogy in the first place, one that doesn't require an additional item for the original product to work versus any tester will require the additional reagent to test along with the original product.

    So ignoring that glaringly terrible comparison I did earlier... How about this...

    Alkatronic = $0.15/day to test alk
    Trident = $1.30/day to test alk/Ca/Mg

    Someone is ripping off the customers with reagent costs. You can clearly see who. Assuming costs are the roughly the same for Ca/Mg reagent as alk, that's almost 3x the costs of reagent being charged by Neptune. Of course this is all hypothetical as the Trident isn't even released yet but I had a high suspicion they would drag reefers over the coals with reagent costs.

    Just for me personally, testing calcium daily is a waste of reagent and a waste of my tank water. With a calcium reactor, it doses calcium and alk at an equal ratio to coral uptake. So my Calcium will track with my alk very closely. If I keep my alk in line, my calcium will be in line. So if I'm testing alk daily anyways... I find testing Ca daily pointless.

    Mg doesn't deplete as fast as alk/Ca... It can usually be tested and dosed quarterly if needed. Again, for me at least, seeing 1380ppm every day isn't needed... Waste of reagent and tank water.

    So for my tank setup and my purposes, Trident is unnecessary. I just need to know my alk and test the other two on a quarterly basis. Others mileage may vary as not everybody runs a calcium reactor and those running 2-part will appreciate the daily calcium result as well.

    I don't know of anybody who will actually benefit much from daily Mg results... Unless they like seeing the same number repeated for months at a time in between water changes.
    Me. Now you know someone who has to monitor and dose mag daily. My tank eats up 30ppm daily. Gotta love those softies.


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  14. #30
    Supporting Member RR-MAN's Avatar
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    All good points above. I guess we will find out in the near future how the supply and demand market pans out for the Neptune monitor.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    __________________________________________________ _______________
    500/g Reef, 8ft by 4 ft * Trigger Custom Sump, 5ft by 3ft * Cone Reef Octopus Skimmer * 3-250MH/T5HO - LED Supplementation
    Maxspect Gyre XF280, 2XMP60s * 2XMP40s * 4 EcoTech Battery Backup


    Fish:
    White Tale Bristletooth Tang, Emperor Angel, Captive Bred Annularis (Blue Ring) Angel, Orange Shoulder Tang, Powder Brown Tang (DEAD 2/18), Clown Tang, Sohal Tang, Naso Tang, lime/six line wrasse, chevron tang

    Automation:
    APEX 2016, WXM module, DOS, SV1-Solenoid Valve, APEX Fish Feeder, Breakout box with float for skimmer cup

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