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  1. #11
    MARSH Sponsor PSXerholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATXacrofarmer View Post
    I can understand the concern but I think it's a minimal risk honestly. Some studies have even shown that the vibrio bacteria is inherently on the corals themselves and only becomes an issue when the health of the coral or a stressor comes into play and weakens the coral, thereby allowing the vibrio bacteria to grow out of hand and cause rapid tissue necrosis. So basically, healthy coral would cause you to never really be concerned about bacteria. Also I understand that higher temperatures can cause quicker metabolisms and growth rates in bacterial population size but at the range that we keep our tanks, it doesn't make much of a difference from 78 degrees to 81 degrees. My tank runs constantly at 81 degrees and my tank isn't overrun with dead and dying corals from bacteria. You can say it's because of my giant UV sterilizer but honestly the unit can only kill what goes through it and vibrio bacteria is attacking the coral on its flesh, not floating around in the water column. So that UV sterilizer may keep it from spreading as quickly if it releases into the water column but if it's on all the corals anyways naturally what difference does a UV sterilizer really make?Just my thoughts.
    I know all that theory, however concerning to me were some pathogenic bacterial studies in the U.K on maritime and freshwater pathogens that were about bacterial diseases on corals and it was quite clear that reduced bacteria did not cause harm, however the increase on temperature above 80 caused pathogenic overrun in bacteria population within hours and affected especially white line STN in Acropora species.
    So the pathogenic bacteria count is what was driving the disease, which makes sense from a biological perspective.
    We only get sick as well if the bad boys are too many and weakened our immune system enough to affect our health.

    So reducing bacterial count via temp, non-pathogenic competition and UV etc., were very positively impacting the health of the test corals.

    In your case, you may have never had this situation, but doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
    Remember I have the same UV as you.
    If I turn it on a MAG12/18, in case the tank is cloudy from white bacteria, the tank is crystal clear after an hour or two. It's very powerful ;-)

    -Andre
    Last edited by PSXerholic; 08-08-2017 at 10:20 AM.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSXerholic View Post
    I know all that theory, however concerning to me were some pathogenic bacterial studies in the U.K on maritime and freshwater pathogens that were about bacterial diseases on corals and it was quite clear that reduced bacteria did not cause harm, however the increase on temperature above 80 caused pathogenic overrun in bacteria population within hours and affected especially white line STN in Acropora species.
    So the pathogenic bacteria count is what was driving the disease, which makes sense from a biological perspective.
    We only get sick as well if the bad boys are too many and weakened our immune system enough to affect our health.

    So reducing bacterial count via temp, non-pathogenic competition and UV etc., were very positively impacting the health of the test corals.

    In your case, you may have never had this situation, but doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
    Remember I have the same UV as you.
    If I turn it on a MAG12/18, in case the tank is cloudy from white bacteria, the tank is crystal clear after an hour or two. It's very powerful ;-)

    -Andre
    Oh, I don't disagree with you at all, or the study. The only point I wanted to make is that it is not the end of the world type scenario. It is discussed like its a big issue which I see it as not really much of one.

    Sometimes these big hype discussions pop up on forums and everyone makes a big deal out of it or looks at the discussion as the next miracle cure to keep happy healthy corals or the next big scapegoat in why everyone's tank doesn't look as nice.

    Just keep foundation elements stable (alk, Ca, Mg) and keep nutrients in line, good water flow, and feed your system and its pretty much it. Pretty and happy corals result from good husbandry, no miracle additives needed or secret formulas, methods, or recipes. This is not directed at you Andre, I'm just old man venting now about the industry. !*!*!*!*! Quarantine and more Quarantine !*!*!*!*!

  4. #13
    MARSH Sponsor PSXerholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATXacrofarmer View Post
    Oh, I don't disagree with you at all, or the study. The only point I wanted to make is that it is not the end of the world type scenario. It is discussed like its a big issue which I see it as not really much of one.

    Sometimes these big hype discussions pop up on forums and everyone makes a big deal out of it or looks at the discussion as the next miracle cure to keep happy healthy corals or the next big scapegoat in why everyone's tank doesn't look as nice.

    Just keep foundation elements stable (alk, Ca, Mg) and keep nutrients in line, good water flow, and feed your system and its pretty much it. Pretty and happy corals result from good husbandry, no miracle additives needed or secret formulas, methods, or recipes. This is not directed at you Andre, I'm just old man venting now about the industry. !*!*!*!*! Quarantine and more Quarantine !*!*!*!*!
    Ahhh, Ok, did not assume you take this from that perspective!!!
    You are dang right, this is not the end of the world.

    We all have pathogenic bacteria in the tank, and will have!
    Part of nature!
    Liverock, Hermits, Fish and Coral Food....... all that bring new bacteria god and bad bacteria into our tanks constantly.

    The Mars Rover brought already Cyano to MARS, well great job humankind, lol. We should have send some Chemiclean as well to Mars in the first aid box for the poor Aliens up there.

    Back to subject, indeed, a good healthy environment is the best protection for our corals to prevent a Coral flu ;-)

    -Andre

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  6. #14
    MARSH Sponsor PSXerholic's Avatar
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    BTW for everyone, here is the Coral disease handbook ;-)
    For my taste too scientific, but if you ever searched for coral diseases on the net, the bacteria count plays a big key role.

    https://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/hfs/Global...20Handbook.pdf

    -Andre

  7. #15
    Supporting Member Diesel's Avatar
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    If we all understand and you look at the life cycle of ich it drops off the fish to attach to a hard surface creating a tomont.
    After a period of time (the longest recorded is 72 days) the tomont "hatches" and releases free swimmers that must then search out a host to feed on or die.
    The free swimmers can't host a coral or invert they need a fish for that.
    Having this QT procedure without fish is perfect.

    But who really has a QT for fish or QT for corals and inverts??
    I think I can count them on one hand here on marsh.
    And as TY said you can go the extreme but on one point you made that small mistake and KABOOM!!.
    Hey I have been there and not only once.
    Do what YOU think is good to be successful with YOUR tank and if you lucky you get all the OH's and AH's and maybe one day you will become TOTM (that is if that is still alive)
    I don't regret the things I did wrong............ I regret the good things I did for the wrong people.

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  9. #16
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    I have a 90 gal quarantine system and like keeping a couple of damsels in there for keeping the bacteria load active.
    david

  10. #17
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    And yet somebody said I wouldn't need 4 tanks for salt water one being qt. Yea I have been thinking I need one for freshwater. No one wants to loose everyone. Or go though an extra crisis.

    So where all can one hide an extra setup and running tank?

    I have said it before I will say it again I NEED a Dr Who real telephone booth house! Or just several of them in my house. Don't know where I could put them either! LOL

  11. #18
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    quarantine is not necessary for all. If your running a large tank or planning to have a lot of fish. Otherwise it would not be cost effective
    david

  12. #19
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    Well, there may is one other way to avoid QT with limited risk !!!

    You buy your corals from really trustful sources and accept the risk of the sellers diseases and parasites in your own tank.
    Saying that, check my frag sales, lol..................

    But really, I'm serious. Only pests I'm aware of in my tank is maybe some unwanted algae species, Green Hispida Montipora, Manjano's occasionally, not seen anything concerning so far since years.

    I cannot risk my current livestock anymore, hence I'm not buying in Local stores, any online retailers or chop shops, Facebook guys and most important not taking in trade offers of corals.
    I buy, if any, from a very few Propagation tank systems only, where you may pay twice as much, but with very very minimal risk and on those I do a short QT and heavy dipping procedure.

    So buying from a true collector or caring hobbyist, is still a more costly alternative, but minimizes the risk of getting your whole tank on risk.
    Comparing the few more dollars versus a few months of adventure going through a costly AEFW or Nudis, bugs and whatever, should be really thought about.

    Unfortunately, most folks just buy whatever is cheapest, doesn't matter from where as long they can save 10 bucks on a multiple thousand dollar system :-(

    Just think about it.

    -Andre

  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSXerholic View Post
    Well, there may is one other way to avoid QT with limited risk !!!

    You buy your corals from really trustful sources and accept the risk of the sellers diseases and parasites in your own tank.
    Saying that, check my frag sales, lol..................

    But really, I'm serious. Only pests I'm aware of in my tank is maybe some unwanted algae species, Green Hispida Montipora, Manjano's occasionally, not seen anything concerning so far since years.

    I cannot risk my current livestock anymore, hence I'm not buying in Local stores, any online retailers or chop shops, Facebook guys and most important not taking in trade offers of corals.
    I buy, if any, from a very few Propagation tank systems only, where you may pay twice as much, but with very very minimal risk and on those I do a short QT and heavy dipping procedure.

    So buying from a true collector or caring hobbyist, is still a more costly alternative, but minimizes the risk of getting your whole tank on risk.
    Comparing the few more dollars versus a few months of adventure going through a costly AEFW or Nudis, bugs and whatever, should be really thought about.

    Unfortunately, most folks just buy whatever is cheapest, doesn't matter from where as long they can save 10 bucks on a multiple thousand dollar system :-(

    Just think about it.

    -Andre
    Well, I had a 10 feet long Bobbit Worm......does that count ????
    I kept this cutie for a few years until he started munching on my Acro colonies!!!

    -Andre


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